Places Some MGTOWs Would Rather Be

Grenade001 :

I posted this on the intermediary forum that Jagr made ( mgtow.forumotion.com/t43-places-you-d-rather-be ). It is about the places that you think about when you want to be somewhere else, I think we have all had those days.

I wanted to copy my original post from the forum but I had to settle for the link so you can see the conversation thus far. I would like to add a few places that I would rather be.

Hong Kong, China
[img]images/2023/1024px-Hong_Kong_Night_Skyline.jpg[/img]

Rocky Mountains, Canada (Hopefully will be making a trip there later this year)



Halong Bay, Vietnam. After I saw the Top Gear: Vietnam Special, I wanted to go there.



Great Wall of China



Look forward to seeing everyone's responses!


BeijaFlor :

Halong Bay reminds me of the karst mountains of Guilin, China. Gorgeous to look at, tough to traverse (except by the river), hell to map.

http://goingyourownway.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=61&d=1392813798

My next "rather be" place is a lot closer to the Chesapeake Bay, and a lot closer to today - Sosua Bay, Dominican Republic. Two weeks from tomorrow, I'll be at the blue-roofed hotel across from this beach....




corvair61 : 

Out deep in the Texas Hill country




hellgorama :

Being sci-fi futurist that I am:








I also like anime so....:




Our Man in Penang :






The top one is in my home island of Penang about 12 miles north of where I live, the Cameron Highlands are roughly in the middle of the country and primarily used for tea plantations and the bottom is Melaka or Malacca as most westerners call it, which still retains some of the Portuguese character of 18th Century pre-British rule.

There is more to Malaysia than sandy beaches and Curry Mee!


Big Boss :



Wengen, Switzerland is the type of place.

Just a small, cozy town. Give me a warm cabin, comfy bed, a computer with internet access and a decent TV/monitor and I would be happy.


Kyojiro Kagenuma :

In response to Hellograma's awesome futurist destinations, and I counter with these journeys into yore



Kiyomizu-dera, Kyoto Japan



Batu Caves, KL Malaysia



Mornington Peninsula, Melbourne Aus


juicemoney :

I like the theory of city-states or locales with minimal government that is more friendly to business and the middle class.
Singapore
Hong Kong
Macau

Of course I also like German automobiles so naturally I would love to have a small shop pretty close to the Nurburgring in Germany:





Our Man in Penang  :

Yup - another reason why I love my European home of Port Erin on the Isle of Man. The entire executive government would fit in a large mini-bus and is very business friendly, unlike those across the water on all sides.







juicemoney :

Forgot about the Isle of Man, another good choice!


Our Man in Penang :

Best thing about it is that if you are a UK or Irish citizen with your own means then you can just move to the Isle of Man without any problem, although you require a work permit to actually work there.

As an international consultant working all over the world (except the UK - that was also in my contract), I immediately cut my tax bill by more than half by moving back to Port Erin (my family are from there), obviously there are slightly higher costs as everything has to be shipped by freight to the Island from either the UK or Ireland, but I was still making a massive saving and adding an additional leg to my journey to Europe only added about another hour each way and this was at most a 2-weekly event.

Where else can you bump into the head of government - Isle of Man Chief Minister Allan Bell in a restaurant with the rest of the general public without any fuss being made? If David Cameron did it in the UK he would get lynched, but then Allan Bell is a down-to-earth guy that doesn't need an entourage and security detail.

That's what makes small countries great - if you've got a problem, you can just collar the buggers in government on the street.


Grenade001 :

Isle of Man looks like a great spot mate. What is the tax rate up there? Can't be any worse than in most places in the West. In Australia, most people are paying an effective rate of about 20-30%. I'm paying about $300 in tax per week over these last few months and I am not on great money, I'm sure if you were in a similar situation to me, that you would be better off living in a more libertarian area and paying an extra $100 for a flight.


Grenade001 :

Well I go to KL for the ease of chicks and mainly to enjoy the five star lifestyle, the hustle and bustle. I only spend a week and three days there over my two trips. I really want to explore Malaysia, it is a good country and it isn't as seedy as Thailand.

Next trip I do in Malaysia would have Penang, Langkawi, Sabah, Ipoh, Melacca and Cameron Highlands. Really explore the places, do a three, four week trip and really make a good time of it.


Our Man in Penang :

Isle of Man - Summary of Income Tax RatesTax Free Allowance0%For first £9,500 or £19,000 for jointly assessed couplesStandard Rate10%On the next £10,500Higher Rate20%On the remainder up to the tax ceilingTax Ceiling0%Beyond £120,000 paid in taxes in FY
Here is  the official Isle of Man Government explanation.



In the Isle of Man an individual’s income tax liability is capped at £120,000 (which is doubled in the case of a jointly assessed married couple) in relation to all income types. This is why a rather rainy, windswept island in the middle of the Irish Sea has a couple of billionaires on it and countless millionaires.

BeijaFlor :
http://goingyourownway.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62&d=1392814038
Does the Isle of Man issue its own passports?


Our Man in Penang :

Yes, but as with other  Crown Dependencies , these are issued by the Queens representative on the Island the  Lord Lieutenant




BeijaFlor :

Thanks ... I failed to see that the Isle of Man is part of the UK, even though it's separate enough to keep its own tax system.

I have a long-term goal to expatriate out of the USA. I won't renounce my citizenship, because of my Civil Service pension, but there are better places for a retired "Old Fart" to live and enjoy life. The Isle of Man looks lovely, and made me curious.


Our Man in Penang :

Nope.

The Isle of Man is not part of the UK nor of the European Union, its just that the landlord just so happens to be the Queen of England and the majority of the islanders have British roots. They tried to make it part of the UK in the 18th Century, but there was rioting and they didn't want a repeat of that whole New England thing.

The Lord of Mann was the titular ruler of the island until 1765 when the feudal rights were purchased by the crown of Great Britain and the title was transferred to George I.

Today, Elizabeth Windsor (aka The Queen of England) still has the title of Lord of Mann (even though she is a woman, she is still known as Lord, not Lady). When doing the Loyal Toast on the Isle of Man, they toast the Lord of Mann, not the Queen or King.

The currency we use is the Manx Pound which is held at parity with the UK pound as the island is in a VAT and customs union with the UK under the Common Purse Agreement. The Manx Government pays the UK MoD for the defence of the island.


BeijaFlor :

I see ... sort of. Obviously, Manx citizenship or residency works as a tax-shelter for a lot of wealthy people, much as Bermudian citizenship/residency works closer to US shores. (Is Bermuda a reasonable comparison to the Isle of Man?)

The question's rather moot, anyways ... unless I win the Powerball, I'm not going to be in such a position of rarefied wealth that I'd need to protect myself by moving offshore to a "tax shelter" home. My notions of "offshoring myself" are more along the lines of exploring, of being a tourist and more than a tourist; of seeing life through the mirror of a new and different environment; maybe, of finding my One Particular Harbor (as Jimmy Buffett put it).


flailer :

Book: - How to Retire Overseas: Everything You Need to Know to Live Well (for Less) Abroad, Kathleen Peddicord


BeijaFlor :

Thanks, Flailer ... got it. Plus Robert Bauman's The Passport Book and the last ten years of International Living Magazine.


Our Man in Penang :

If you are into that sort of thing, the 3-volume set of Bye, Bye Big Brother has a wealth of ideas and do's and don'ts for those wishing to check out of the matrix and do their own thing. Having lived a form of the perpetual tourist lifestyle since 2008 or so it isn't easy, but I get little to no hassle from folks as I always appear to be "a foreign tourist, just passing through".

I wouldn't say that laws don't apply to me, but a lot of the hassle that folks in the settled community go through, property taxes, local ordinances, etc., even down to minor parking violations just get ignored by the local bureaucrats when they realize I am a non-resident foreigner with a legally registered and insured foreign vehicle. They just decide that attempting to process me when they can't even enter my address into their computer systems is just too much hard work.

A lot of my knowledge was historic, having somehow got on the Scope International mailing list back in the 80's I was aware of the existence of the  Perpertual Traveler concept as outlined by Harry Schultz and expanded by W.G. Hill.

Although the concepts outlined in W.G. Hill's books such as "P.T. - Perpetual Tourist", the "Passport Report" or "Portable Trades and Occupations" were written in the legal and technological framework of the 1980's, a creative mind can easily transform these ideas into the more intrusive but freer domain of the internet.

The "Bye, Bye, Big Brother" books by Grandpa are, by and large a rewriting of W.G. Hill's works for the 2010's.

For the most part, my life as a Perpetual Traveller is set and I just need to make sure that I don't encounter any legal or tax icebergs that might sink my ship of freedom. Living in Penang is part of that as for a (non-US Citizen) foreigner with earnings from abroad, it is a tax haven.

Unfortunately for those with US Citizenship or Green Card holders Uncle Sam still owns your ass even if you are non-resident unlike every other country in the world (Eritrea and North Korea excepted). Just Google FBAR or FATCA regulations to see how far this goes.

I keep up to date on the issues affecting Perpetual Travellers by reading Simon Black's  Sovereign Man newsletters.

In terms of other resources you can also try Andrew Henderson of  Nomad Capitalist .

flailer :

Based upon my limited research: "Owning your ass" depends on your resources, and the source of those resources.
For example: a US citizen living abroad is NOT taxed on income earned abroad, until it goes over something like $90k per year. And $90k per year in some places is like $500k a year in the US. YES??
For example: Pay the fine for non-coverage of ObamaCare, & buy local coverage, as it is 1/3 the price, and you have the advantage of actually being able to use the coverage (unlike ObummerCare)

I got a lot of my ideas of where I would rather be from books on retiring overseas. Primary How to Retire Overseas: Everything You Need to Know to Live Well (for Less) Abroad, Kathleen Peddicord.

- Thailand
- Dominican Republic
- Belize
- El Valle Panama

Other sources of info:
-Liveandinvestoverseas dot Com
-Expat Exchange (forum)
-Ajarn Forum (forum)

Why am I doing this?
Answer: Because Fascist States of America doesn't deserve: Me, My hard work, My improvements to society, My tax dollars, or My loyalty. Fuck You Fascist Leftist Marxist Scumbags that destroyed what was the finest country ever known.


Grenade001 :

There was a story on the news last night about backpackers sleeping in their vans along the beach and the local council was fining them $500 per offense. I don't think the council will see a cent considering the backpackers will fly back to Sweden, U.S, Europe, etc. and probably won't be back in Australia for at least 20 years if at all.

When I was traveling semi long-term spending a month in each place, I didn't even have a need for a car, all I was doing was paying $140 week for a hostel (all inclusive - kitchen, water, internet) and maybe $30/week for food and $30 for beer. I was on a working visa so I was just stacking shelves for a few days a week and made enough to cover expenses and still came home with a bit of money. If I didn't have University obligations, I could go right back on and do it, maybe in a caravan and go around Australia.


TheRecipe :

It would have to be somewhere hot or at least warm, our climate in the UK is pretty miserable, a bit like our women! Top choices:

Croatia:



Valencia (Spain):






Our Man in Penang :

Yes, you can rationalise it as such, but it is still exactly that - rationalising...

The vast majority of countries don't care or more realistically are utterly powerless to do anything about their citizens should they choose to move abroad.

Only Uncle Sam in its hubris, arrogance and decline DEMANDS, not requests but DEMANDS to know the whereabouts and most intimate financial details of US persons beyond their borders.

If my government demanded that from me I would tell them to go fuck themselves with a cactus.

...but then I have no ties to the land of the free and the home of the brave.

BeijaFlor :

At one level it is indeed "rationalising," but at another level ... might it simply be rational? "Going ghost," at least in my opinion, doesn't need to rely so much on "legal invulnerability;" it relies far more on invisibility ... on simply not showing up on the radar. If Uncle Sam has no reason to chase me ... what, me worry?

I'm a native of the USA, so I'm used to its laws and its customs. I'm a retired Federal employee - 36 years making maps, for the Department of Defense - and I live comfortably, if modestly, on my Federal pension. I am not living at the rarefied level of high-finance and high-maintenance that would require me to run a "Five Flags" perpetual-tourist kind of existence; I have never been married, so there's no threat of confiscation through divorce; I don't chase tail in the USA, so I don't believe I run the risk of confiscation through "oopsies" or "baby-daddy" judgments in Family Court. So, with all of that, I'm "invisible" ... save for that once-a-year when I file my Federal tax return; I do that online, anyways, and I get a modest refund that goes straight into the bank.

That said, my major impetus to move offshore is that I believe I can live more comfortably, more enjoyably, and lead a more-interesting (and even exciting) life outside the United States. And my own major impetus to (perhaps) acquire a second passport, is because I can see it might be useful to cross certain borders as, say, "Señor Juan Herrero - Uruguay" rather than as "Mr. John Smith - USA". (It might also take me off the target, if they're hunting Yankees.)

So for me, with my pension and my lifestyle, it's not worth cutting myself away from US citizenship. But that's just me. It does look well worthwhile for me to expatriate myself, though, and to live in a country that affords me comforts and pleasures that aren't so available in the USA ... or to live in a fashion that lets me move, easily, from country to country, simply by clearing Customs, weighing anchor, and sailing onward. For now, I'm exploring that; later on, I may be living it.


flailer :

LOL. Silly.

I'm with you on the evil nature of Government (all bureaucracies: the larger they are the more Evil & Wasteful they are & the more Coercion they apply)
Hell I rant & rail against it and call it the Fascist States of America more than anyone else I know)

But to cut off one's nose to spite his face is idiotic. My case *maybe even less cut & dried than other peoples, as i have not only Federal resources but State accounts too, on top of tax shelters that would become taxable on the day I renounced.
Give away $, my Fed plans? BULLSHIT
Give away $, my State plan? BULLSHIT
Pay bulk taxes $, rather than delay when money is worth less? BULLSHIT

Now, if you wanna say they got me by the balls (figuratively speaking only) i would agree.

Yes, I am "married" to the Evil States of America - and RATIONALLY: the divorce is far too expensive.

p.s. The purposeful, central bank engineered, devaluation of the US dollar (also called inflation) is one of the things that MOST bothers me about the FSA (fascist states of america)


Our Man in Penang :

I didn't create that "marriage" and only you can acknowledge its existence as the US government does not exist in the same sense that you or I do as physical corporeal beings.

I am not saying that you are wrong, but rather you should switch your allegiance from Vichy to Maquis


Eiji :

places I'd like to be....
well, as far as Italy is concerned.... I can think of several....
-Venice (I hear there's no city in the world like it)
-Rome (I've just got to see the coliseum)
-Vatican City (world's smallest sovereign state...)
-Vinci (their museum dedicated to Leonardo is a "gotta see" for me...)
-Pompeii ruins (I understand it and Herculaneum are the most complete pictures we have of Roman-period cities)
and finally, Naples... (I hear that's where the pizza was invented... 14th Century)