Where is this relationship going?

Demosthenes :

or those seeking a relationship, what does that even mean? Relationships are about a journey, not a destination.

Men want a relationship, but women attach achievement goals and destinations to the relationship early on as if they are on a time table and trying to close a deal. That may not be far from the truth.

If you've dated and they like you, they are looking for something exclusive.

Once you're 'boyfriend and girlfriend' and they are comfortable that you're on the hook for exclusivity, then they want to know where this relationship is going after several months. Where does it need to go?

Gifts may extend the time one has in this zone, but its not a very long time until she is going to want to know, where is 'this' going? What is 'this' and why does it have to go anywhere? What she is saying is she expects 'this' to move along a specified path and you're not moving quickly enough. You're supposed to be committing even more now. Your promise of an exclusive relationship is not enough for her, she wants more. She REQUIRES more.

So you drop two or three months worth of income on a ring and she feels special and everything is again fine, but it will not be long before things change again. You see, she is now your fiance' and that means HER day is coming. The wedding day will be HER day. Not a day for the COUPLE...you are a means to an end. So, In 3 months to a year and a half, your special lady will plan and plan and define everything about HER wedding, around HER.

Where is this relationship going? Guys...did you even think a relationship was about going somewhere? Nope, well, she's did and she is going somewhere, and she's even going to do you the favor of taking you there, whether you want to go or not, whether you like it or not. She is going to play games, manipulate you with crying, sex, ultimatums, and every other thing she has to to guide you along the path.

So HER big day comes and you marry in front of friends and family and sign the contract. Congratulations, you are now subordinate to your wife and the state that legally supports her and whatever she may decide. You are now in a three way relationship you thought was only between you and your 'lovely' lady.

Married life settles into what everyone's life settles into. A routine, of work, and obligations. For now, you two need a house. You are married and can't be expected to live in an apartment after all. Whether or not she is working, things are likely o.k. financially, unless of course, you've assumed a large amount of her debt by marrying her. Marriage is about sharing after all.

Notice how she's coming home with way more stuff than you every month? Notice how when you do get stuff, there's an inspection to be sure you should have spent the money on yourself? If not, count yourself lucky, but money is money. There is the joint money and there is her money, but there is no 'your money'. If you are stupid enough to think that you have money, you're selfish and domineering. If you're stupid enough to think she also is not allowed to have just her money, you're controlling and disrespectful. You are the guy, and having your own money would be selfish. Her having her own money is 'empowering and liberating' and contributed to her independence as a modern woman.

If you two did not already plan for a baby, give it two or three years if you are lucky and she will be planning for that little bundle of joy. Here comes the baby. Or babies. Here comes depression over bodily changes. Here comes someone who is going to make you think she is the first person ever in the world to have gotten pregnant and to deal with all the issues pregnancy regularly brings.

So the baby is on the way and she is feeling good and buying baby things. And House things. And you know that the house you got for the two of you is eventually not going to be big enough for the three (or four, or five) of you. If you're still stuck in an apartment, you better be planning on that house, because you can't raise a proper family in an apartment. Save money for your first, or another home down payment if you can, but its unlikely that can happen. You have to get a mini van too. Now that the little one has come along. We'll trade in your car since she needs hers and she can drive the minivan and will allow you to use her car. You may wonder why the mini van is in her name and yours, but her car is still only in her name. If you want it changed to both of you on both vehicles, well, maybe, but that's so trivial of you. There are more important things going on after all.

So there's all the baby expenses, and the lack of sleep, and she's dealing with 'so much', and the baby weight makes her feel icky, and having sex again even though the doctor says its o.k. isn't what she wants, and you're working hard, and having to do half at home, and feedings at night, and your managers at work are noticing. Even at home you can't get rest. Its fine if she naps but a nap for you is lazy.

Where is this relationship going again? So where should a relationship go? Relationships do not have to go anywhere. They are not a destination. They are a journey. The problem is, men don't know the stopping points, or even realize there was ever a final destination planned by his lovely lady.

Well, your lovely lady does get in the mood again and for a time genuinely may just enjoy the sex, but you see, that baby is now older, and things are still routine. Where's the exciting life and having it all she was promised? You have a lot to live up to mister! Why can't you deliver?! You're not making her happy. You're boring because you try your best to keep the bills paid, but that's not exciting. She wanted children, and wanted to marry, but she's not getting the fulfillment she expected and that is your fault, not hers.

Either she becomes pregnant (again), or you two fight over another baby – and more children come or they don't, but time passes and the little one(s) start school and life is even more routine and she wants to work or doesn't...or both – but either way, you've been an obstacle to either goal. Remember that. You just never support her the way way she needs and you don't 'validate her feelings' and 'make her happy'. You did realize that her happiness or lack of it is your fault. You're responsible for your own, and hers. Don't expect her to be accountable for her choices or her happiness. That would be controlling and expecting too much of her, and domineering men like that need to understand how horrible they are for having any expectations for their own happiness in marriage.

Ever how long it takes now, you're at the point where this relationship is still on a path to somewhere, but guys, trust me, you don't want a relationship that has to go somewhere. Why? Because at this stage, if the relationship can not mature and settle down into acceptance of itself (by her), then the place where this relationship is going is not into continued marital work and effort, but to divorce.

Yes, if and when she decides this is not what she wanted out of life, she needs no other reason than all the discontent 'you' have heaped upon her poor fragile self to file for divorce and empower herself into a better life. A life without you. She knows this will solve her problems. Her friends even told her so.

She should get the house because she and the kids need a place to stay. She'll also need the minivan, but the car is in her name so you'll work something out in court, maybe. She's going to be alone now that she can't handle how boring you are so she might need alimony and she definitely needs child support too. Most of the furnishings should stay. You're a man, and would not deprive your child(ren) would you?

Even if no dirty tricks or false accusations of domestic violence occur, and even if you are the biological father of the children and have not been cheated on and lied into believing another man's children are yours, you're now an outcast from your own family and might get to see your children 4 days a month at most, and that is if you are lucky and she doesn't try to keep you from seeing them whenever possible.

Now you see where the relationship was going. She had a path, and expectations and she ticked off the major goals on her list right down to the preplanned disappointment in you for ruining her life by being a boring provider who could not make her happy rather than making her feel special, and excited all the time. She never took responsibility for her happiness or feelings, but she has definitely taken you.


Capo :

This should be mandatory reading for all young men.


O.G. :

Just a possible footnote* to add in for many cases. Somewhere between one of the last few paragraphs.

*Let us not forget the affair you caused her to have. Since you are always at work and could not provide for her emotional needs like a man should. She had no choice but to find that from someone else.

You of course are informed of how poorly you have provided for her emotional needs at some very expensive marriage counseling sessions. You go to these sessions after her "mistake" of an affair is discovered by you.

Should you not want to go to counseling you're automatically an ass, and just throwing away and sabotaging a good marriage because you don't want to work through a rough patch. Think of the children and all. Time to man up and forgive.

Of course you fail at those sessions because she still is not happy. A second affair is most likely in the wings.

The story then resumes as written.


BeijaFlor :

"Where is this relationship going?"

Snap answer: Reno ... and a ruinous divorce.


Fully Completely :

This should be in the sticky section.
Required reading for any man of marrying age.
Am feeling a little ill right now, think I'll go lie down for a while..

There was a Kate Micucci animation on marriage called 'Hey You, that Guy '
Basically step by step the above..


jagrmeister :

Agreed about the importance of MGTOWs reading this. Will move this to MGTOW 101 (after the initial discussion here in the Lounge).


Ancient Sunlight :

Posts like this really made the old forum; its great to see them return.


Demosthenes :

> Posts like this really made the old forum; its great to see them return.

As suggested by jagrmeister, I'll revisit some of my older posts, clean them up a little and post them here. I'm sure there are a few more I'll want to repost after some additional review.

As for other posts from the old site or elsewhere, if you're going to repost another's writing, be sure to give proper credit even if all you can credit is a username/pseudonym.


Kyojiro Kagenuma :

I'm looking forward to read more.


Mr Wombat :

>  If you two did not already plan for a baby, give it two or three years if you are lucky and she will be planning for that little bundle of joy. Here comes the baby. Or babies. Here comes depression over bodily changes.

And for that matter: here come the bodily changes. What about your depression over that? God help you if you mention it. That little hottie who seduced you with her smile is long, long gone - you are now sharing your bed with a dumpy housewife. How did all those men you see down at the mall wind up with threes and fours? Now you know.